Illegal High Pressure Bottles [Archive]

Cpt.Krunch

12-12-2003, 04:48 PM

There's been a bit of chat under the Help section about this topic so I'll bring it to the spam arena so it has a bit more exposure.

In a nutshell the question has been asked if it is legal to get a non-Australian Standards, Workcover labeled and approved bottle tested and filled in Australia.

The short answer is NO.

The long answer is below.

People, even if you import a bottle from OS and get it tested at a dive shop you should be aware that........................

It is still ILLEGAL to fill it unless it states both the Australian Standard and the workcover permit number on the bottle. (That's on an official label, not written in permanent marker!") Even if the dive shop or other company get it "tested" which is Illegal, getting caught filling one will incure a huge fine for the business filling the illegal cylinder.

That's right, even though the DOT-E standard is EXCACTLY the same, little BIATCH we don't always have our "own stupid standards", but we do have our own rules to govern such things, it is Illegal to fill and will not be filled at an APPL event, due to Southern Comercial Divers not wanting the umpteen thousand dollar fine that goes with it.

All bottles sold by, Action Paintball Games, have both these labels on them meaning there is no question about their legality. Our bottles are Luxfer "Tuff Coat" fibre wrap bottles with a 15 year test life.

It is a little more expensive for us than dealers in the states (we only buy around 100 at a time!) so our "dealer" price isn't as fantastic as say Paintball Inc who buy over 10,000 at a time.

The beauty of my statement is you can check it with at least 2 sources, Luxfer Gas Cylinders (02)9830-0999 or Workcover (I only have the NSW number) on (02)4321-5000.

Yzo

12-12-2003, 04:56 PM

thanks jd,

just needed a straight yes or no answer.. cheers..

all too much for a newb like me to understand :cry:

Hideous

13-12-2003, 02:00 AM

I am sure i had to sign off on the medical and emergency air cylinders - luxfer's -
with DOT rating and no ASA - supplied by BOC i think. :(

Must find the paperwork for it stating that they were right TO use in Australian.
Bloody funny if they supplied cyclinders and the notice said NOT TOO.

hmmm i see -

these have a HO ( home office standard - British ) STAMPs which are covered under the "foreign cylinder list" amendment for :bow: AS 2030. :bow:

I dont have the "amendment list" just the one "HO code" for the ones we bought. :hammer:

Hideous

13-12-2003, 02:26 AM

Q/A's - workcover guide in Victoria - it's a guide not a standard.

Is the Confirmation of Design issued by WorkSafe the same as a Design Approval?
No. WorkSafe no longer "Approves" the design of plant. WorkSafe will only issue a Confirmation of Design. The issue of a Confirmation of Design does not mean WorkSafe has verified that the designer has complied with the design obligations prescribed by the regulations.

My item of plant has already been approved by another state. Do I need to get it approved in Victoria?
No. If an item of plant has already had its design Notified, Approved or Registered it is not necessary to lodge a design notification with WorkSafe Victoria. WorkSafe will accept the interstate design number.

Am I required to lodge design calculations, test certificates operation manuals etc with my Design Notification?
No. Initially you are only required to lodge an application form for design, a representational drawing of the plant and the fee of $A65.

However, if WorkSafe decides to carry out an audit of the design, the Design Notifier may be asked to supply design calculations, detailed design drawings, test certificates, data sheets, risk assessment & hazard identification documentation or any other information relevant to the design.

so we spend $65...................................

Mike

13-12-2003, 06:52 AM

That is all good dude but, it is still illegal to fill those bottles and that is the major problem we are trying to stop for next year. I know Les (Southern Commercial Divers) will not be filling any bottles that are not properly approved. We do not want heaps of guys turning up to tournaments next season to play and then being told that their bottle is not able to be filled.

People do not have to buy their bottles off us only as Mac Devs bottles are also approved, or they could even ring Luxfer themselves and order a pallet of bottles if so inclined.

If you purchase a non approved bottle you will only be waisting your money...

JJJ

13-12-2003, 09:27 AM

15 years test life on my bottle, that rocks.

Does that mean I dont have to have it tested until this period expires (when i become Mikes age) or does it mean that you have to have regular testing but that the bottle can no longer be approved after 15 years?

Sorry but I do work for the Govt & this is how our sick & twisted puppy minds work!

Hideous

13-12-2003, 03:34 PM

If you purchase a non approved bottle you will only be waisting your money...

Probably be good if there was a list and pictures of all the AS Testing Station Stamps. And a copy of the AS - Foreign Equivalents Stamps would be good to have as well --- so as not to disadvantage anyone who has an AS approved cylinder that did not buy their cylinder from the 2 well known outlets.

The exact wording escapes me (as I am at home), but once its approved, the manufacturer, model and type becomes approved - not just the ones with the company name embedded on it - as long as the model/plant do not change in specifications.

this way importing the "same" cylinder from the USA without the AU Importers name is covered under all your hard initial work. Bummer I am sure if true.

I apologise if I am wrong, and I will have it checked before next APPL.

If a APPL monitorium is put on non APG and Mac cylinders, then the user can always fill their tanks themselves form another source.

But you can't use the argument "its not purchased from the two major cylinder dealers" therefore we wont fill it.

Sorry Mike :respekt: I live to argue :p but I do have x 2 AS cylinders for APPL.

Have you seen the new Luxfer bottles with the asset tags/ID imbedded into the glass too ?
With a TAG reader on the fillstation it would be - No current tag - No fill - No arguments.

stupid 80cf tank i had just failed test - I dropped it onto the tow bar.. grumble..

TRENT

13-12-2003, 05:13 PM

Would my smart parts max flo bottle be ok?

Hideous

13-12-2003, 05:22 PM

Would my smart parts max flo bottle be ok?

No.. Probably not at this stage.

As Mike said it has to conform to AS2030 standards.

If the DOT is in the AS 2030 foreign database you may have a chance, but until then.. no.

It's "guilty until proven innocent" with high pressure products.

Once you have seen a cylinder rupture and blow through the side of a car you will understand why we have standards.

Story:
It was a hot 42C day, old steel scuba tank ~17yo, must have had too many taps... BLAM the neck cracked and ruptured and blew 1/3rd THROUGH my Mazda 929 boot side panel.
Not to mention my X g/f still has ringing in her ears after 17years and had the best RED eyes for 2 days.

TRENT

13-12-2003, 05:55 PM

Damn, ill get it tested anyway for safety and use my conquest at comps i guess cause supossedly Conquest Threads are different? IS this correct?

bunkerboy

13-12-2003, 07:34 PM

Let me get this straight, that brand spankin' new ACI Bulldog 3 91/4500 HPA bottle I just got from the States isnt worth a damn if one day a miracle happens and I want to play APPL?
The bottle itself is made by Luxfer, part number P14A-7

minihux

13-12-2003, 09:28 PM

Bill

13-12-2003, 09:42 PM

im dont understand

like i dont know all the facts............

But just say u brought a 68/3000 gas bottle from the states and u bring it over to ozzy and its been tested and every thing is fine with it, it works just like any bottle u would by from Mac or Mike and its brand new. Why cant u fill them at APPL......there legal?

i am just wondering cause i dont fully understand?

peace minihux :confused:
It needs the workcover approval/standard stamped on it.
No such marking and the filler of the bottle will get a bi fine if cought.

It does not matter if the bottle meets/excededs the standards, It must be labled as such correctly.

TRENT

13-12-2003, 09:54 PM

What does this stamp look like? Anyone. Oh i put my conquest bottle on my max flo and it fits sweet. Only had to file away some thread and it was ok.

TRENT

13-12-2003, 09:55 PM

Just Kidding :whip: , it fitted fine so now I can use my Max Flo in comps. Can someone please upload pics and links to what passes and what doesnt pass standards in AUS.

minihux

13-12-2003, 10:02 PM

It needs the workcover approval/standard stamped on it.
No such marking and the filler of the bottle will get a bi fine if cought.

so that stamp is the only thing that will stop us from using imported bottles.

how do u get that stamp........?

peace minihux

Hideous

13-12-2003, 11:44 PM

NOOOOO please say ya guys cant make stamps now too :(

No they cost $65 from Workcover.

Once workcover have the specifications etc they issue an approval for ALL tanks of that model (same manufacturer, same type/part number) unless the spec's are changed.

basically if you have a Luxfer model PO8F 68/3000 glass fibre cylinder and it has a Workcover Rego of GC 6 - 22457/02
Then the design specifications have been "sealed" for that model cylinder/plant
and all of that type are ok.

Remember a workcover stamp does not mean it meets AS2030 standards

minihux

14-12-2003, 12:39 AM

ok after u get the stamp then what do u have to do to get it to meet AS2030 standards......it sounds like that stamp does nothing.

peace minihux

minihux

14-12-2003, 12:45 AM

People do not have to buy their bottles off us only as Mac Devs bottles are also approved, or they could even ring Luxfer themselves and order a pallet of bottles if so inclined.

If you purchase a non approved bottle you will only be waisting your money...

Who else could would you buy a bottle off that would meet APPL rules besides Mac Dev and Action Paintball and Luxfer?

peace minihux

minihux

14-12-2003, 01:41 AM

i have been looking around to see what the AS2030 Standards actuall mean and here is something i found.

just say u have a bottle and u are worried about its condition u can go get it tested to see if it still meet the AS2030 Standards.

Quoted From MARINE ORDERS
Web Site Link :http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cache:szWNooeRgKcJ:www.amsa.gov.au/sd/mo/MO_main/MO15.pdf+AS2030+standards&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

A gas cylinder which has been discharged, which shows a loss of contents, which has evidence of deleterious corrosion or other physical defect, or which is due for inspection and testing in accordance with Australian Standard AS2030 must be serviced at a test station approved by the Standards Association of Australia under the terms of Australian Standard AS2337. Where external examination of a full cylinder reveals noapparent deterioration, the period between the test after manufacture and the firstperiodic test required by AS2030 may be extended beyond ten years, but must notexceed twenty years. Thereafter the periodic test should be at five-year intervals.

now i think if u had a bottle from America and its brand new and you took it to get that above test done and it passed then it mees the AS2030 Standards so then you would be able to get it filled at APPL event.

dont hole my word to this.....but i think what i said above it correct..

peace minihux

Mike

14-12-2003, 07:15 AM

It is legal to import.

It is legal to own.

But it is still illegal to fill...........

Before you get pissed, we would also save about a $100.00 per bottle if we could just buy direct from the states too (try multiplying that by over a 100 bottles at a time - ouch!), since we do not or for that matter can not purchase the bottles in such massive quantities as overseas paintball companies. I personally spent nearly a year trying to find any way to back door the process and get bottles approved and it was impossible, so that is why in the end I simply gave up and copied Mac Dev and just bought the proper bottles already approved.

If you just import non approved bottles then you ARE WAISTING YOUR MONEY!

Please do not come up to me or Les from Southern Commercial Divers and get upset because no one will fill your bottle. To all the other paintball promotors out there please remember the fine is for the person who actually fills the bottle, not the person who owns it, so it will be YOU that cops it not them.

Lastly please understand that it is not me that makes these laws, it is our government, so if you want to get upset then call them.

minihux

14-12-2003, 12:32 PM

i dont see any one around here getting up set we all have Mac Dev or Action Paintball bottles so we are all legal.

i could just not understand.....that if your bottle is not approved then it gets tested and passes the AS2030 rules and u get it stamped then why would it still not be aloud...?

peace minihux

Tom

14-12-2003, 09:12 PM

Just Kidding :whip: , it fitted fine so now I can use my Max Flo in comps. Can someone please upload pics and links to what passes and what doesnt pass standards in AUS.

you can use any reg you want its the bottle that must be in test. i think the reg has to be in good working order though

minihux

14-12-2003, 11:05 PM

yeah we already know u can use any reg dude........

but by the sound of it there trying to say even if your bottle is in test and it passes it still cant be used even if it is stamped and has it stamped on your bottle stating that its AS2030 complient.........

i still dont understand why it would not be legal if it passes all the tests and u get the rite stamps.....

peace minihux

Mike

15-12-2003, 08:06 AM

No MiniHux,

People will get very upset next season when they will not be able to get their flash new bottle (the one they were told on this website by the experts they can easily get approved) filled at a tournament and realise they have blown a lot of money based on incorrect advice. When we tell them this they do not thank us but rather act like we are total pricks, like it is actually our fault.

Chances are high that they may say 'stuff it" and quit the sport altogether. This is something I do not want to happen. We need more players, not less.

I travel all over the country playing paintball and I see heaps of illegal bottles being used (and filled) all the time. These players go to great lengths to tell me how they have beaten the system and that their bottle is now legal.

Man, they do not like it when I try to explain that they are incorrect. To me personally, all the bottles are fine, after all, for all intents and purposes they are EXACTLY the same minus a stupid line of printed text and numbers on the label.

But that is the law.

To all the people that want to continually quote stuff off the net about how easy these bottles are to get approved maybe you may want to issue a sort of personal guarrentee to buy back all these bottles that can't be filled at a tourny but were purchased based on your sound advice.

Jamie_Cracker

15-12-2003, 04:53 PM

man i tried for ages to get it done legally,i found heaps of places that would test cylinders but all the big places that i went to wouldnt have a bar of it,i tried to get the specs to get them all approved legally but the companies in america laughed at me,so basically it comes down to goingto either mac dev,action paintball games or buying them in bulk from luxfer or some other manufacturer
Believe me we will not be filling illegal cylinders at any APPL events we nearly got caught before cause someone had a bit of a whinge about the legality of everything,so get it sorted cause we dont want to have to tell people that we cant fill their cylinders I have done it before and i dont like standing there arguing about it
JJJ 15 years is its service life that is in 15years from the date of manufacture you have to destroy the cylinder,you have to get it tested every 3 years

Mike

15-12-2003, 06:58 PM

Hi MiniHux,

I know you do not have a problem dude. There is no war on the horizon, please do not take my statements as an attack on you personally. That is not my intention, but I am trying to stress to all the so called experts who keep giving people bullshit answers to shut up so that Jamie or myself do not have to be the pricks that won't fill their non approved bottle at the next tournament.

To every one else out there, please do not purchase a non approved bottle and save everyone (you included) the heartache later. :cry:

bunkerboy

15-12-2003, 07:19 PM

Too late, but thanks anyway Mike for the heads-up. Looks like I may be buying a Conquest now with my 'Borg.:)

kodos

15-12-2003, 08:20 PM

.....minus a stupid line of printed text and numbers on the label.

But that is the law.

Mike can you enlighten us what that line of txt and numbers is??

I think I'm OK I got a Mac bottle but would be nice to be able to check :help:

Hideous

15-12-2003, 09:42 PM

APPL make the rules for the sake of the sport.

Last thing we need is some safety official slapping an injunction on the tournament. Or slapping a huge fine that will blow off a major sponsor and supporter of paintball

They have clearly stated this is what they want -
AS approved cylinder, including Workcover rego stamps
or AS approval and workcover documentation to "prove" its approved -if its not already on the bottle.

Just do it...

Jamie_Cracker

15-12-2003, 09:46 PM

been there had that lucky to explain our way out of it
a $70 000 fine isnt a fun thing to be threatened with

Mike

16-12-2003, 07:22 AM

I will take a picture today of what is supposed to be on an approved bottle and put it here on Bills.

If you own a Mac system then they are approved as well.

Action John

16-12-2003, 12:13 PM

I will take a picture today of what is supposed to be on an approved bottle and put it here on Bills.

If you own a Mac system then they are approved as well.

Here are the pics

Electrofunkster

16-12-2003, 12:39 PM

thanks action john ... this should clear a few things up .... I think the bottle also has to have a small square witht eh test date epoxyed to the side aswell ... then its happy filling ....

now who has bottles without this on ... ?????

kodos

16-12-2003, 12:54 PM

I will take a picture today of what is supposed to be on an approved bottle and put it here on Bills.

If you own a Mac system then they are approved as well.

Thanks Mike

But my bottle has different DOT-E spec (DOT-E11005) and no Workcover Number :eek:

Last question is how often should it be hydrostatic tested :help:

GAV WA

16-12-2003, 02:44 PM

Well somebody better ring the Australian Fire Brigade services and tell them not to go running into any burning buildings because half of their B.A. equipment doesn't have approved cylinders. Then ring the Australian Navy and tell them their B.A. equipment can't be used or their cylinders for shot lines or charge lines. I just had a look at about 50 cylinders for the Navy and none of them had it on them, I was going to ring them and tell them they won't be getting their cylinders back but thought I'd leave that to someone else, I'm sure they'll stop all navy exercises to get new cylinders. A.S. 2030 is such a broad ranging standard it doesn't even really explain itself to this type of use. From memory the standard that these types of fibre wrapped cylinders is tested to is A.S. 2337.1.3 Most of the fire fighters cylinders isn't even dot it's HSE, HSE AL FW2 i think to be exact. I've got a Max attack cylinder and it doesn't have it and it's only a couple of years old, so you're saying that Mac Dev sold me a bottle that is illegal for use in this country, cool they now have to do a recall on all these and replace them with a new, legal one, I get a new cylinder cool. As does anyone else that has bought a cylinder from an australian shop and is now told they can't use it. DOT-E11194 fibre wrap bottles have a usable life of fifteen years and now I'm told I need a new one.

GAV WA

16-12-2003, 02:55 PM

I think during the week I might go into the Work cover library and find the actuall part of the Act and the standards rulings, If this is not true it is against the law to be telling people it is. I will also be speaking to my sister later who is a lawyer for the Crown Solicitors Office and ask her about some fair trading laws. If the APPL at the moment is saying they will not be filling any of the old cylinders at the next tourney well either something is wrong about the current thoughts on cylinder testing procedures or we were all sold illegal cylinders in the past and they have to be replaced by the respective companys. Can you imagine if you tried making and selling cars without seat belts in this country, even if they made it to the road they would be recalled or fixed at no cost to the buyer.
Even if a cylinder is not made to an Australian excepted standard but is accidentally tested and passes then when it is stamped or marked as so then for the life of that marking it is approved for use in this country because that mark says that it has been tested to the australian standards, I've even seen a 10 metre long KO pot that had this done to it. It had been tested by someone else and when we were asked to do some mods to it we picked it up and then had to go through a bit of shit sorting it out so we could test it after finishing the changes.

GAV WA

16-12-2003, 03:37 PM

Part of a document published in 1999 by Standards Australia when the old AS 2030 was reviewed,

"In a similar vein, the acceptable foreign compressed gascylinder specification annex of the 1989 edition of the Standard has been removed. When the Standards are published, any foreign compressed gas cylinder may be imported into Australia provided the Standard to which it is built is recognized by the National Government in the country of manufacture"

GAV WA

16-12-2003, 04:24 PM

Just spoke to a friend at work cover and so long as the DOT-E standard that the cylinder has been made and tested to has been certified by standards australia then there is a recipricall agreement between the two respective standards and that cylinder does not need to have an AS number marked on it. But if you like you can take the cylinder down to your local testing centre and they can test it and put the relevant A.S. number on the bottle the same way thay mark the test date.
But as John said it is completely up to Southern commercial divers as to what cylinders they fill, so it looks like from now on if you want to play APPL you need to buy your air system from Action Paintball.
Now before you all jump up and down I'm not trying to smack down Action, they didn't bring this on and I spoke to Mike and JD about 6 weeks ago about this a little and it's a pain for them too as they have had to get the cylinders done with this on them specifically and it costs a fair wad per cylinder and they have to buy in bulk too. I just think it sucks how this has been an on going jab up the arse for years and nothing is ever finallised about what is law and what isn't.

GAV WA

16-12-2003, 04:54 PM

My god I'm getting a head ache from all this, no wonder it is so hard to work out, I just spoke to Standards Australia and the guy there was probably the only one to be able to explain it like he understood it. The new regulations on 2030.1 which now seems to cover this more acutely (sorry my earlier remark about 2030 having little relavence was a little off the mark as it's a couple of years since I've had to look at them, thank christ) is all self regulated, as long as the manufacturer is happy that hais product would comply to 2030.1 and he's happy for you to use it then work cover is happy for you to use it. Work cover just don't want to make the call, they just want to come in after the fact and act like policeman, lazy wankers.
I'll have to go into the library so I can read the actual standard 2030.1. It would be nice for everybody though if a cheap and easier way through this was found.

Jamie_Cracker

16-12-2003, 09:09 PM

umm my head hurts.....
Gav this is why i finally gave up with it all no body could tell me what the actuall law was supposed to mean and that it was very open to peoples interpritation
I havent looked at the standards for a few years now i might have to do it
Do you think that the cylinder manufacturers in the US are going to give us a legally binding document that states that we can use these cylinders for paintball use

kodos

16-12-2003, 10:03 PM

Electro it is a Max Attack that I got with my Conquest from Mac dev I guess I'm in the same boat as Gav WA

GAV WA

16-12-2003, 10:20 PM

I hope it's not taken that I'm upset with the problem of Southern Comercial Divers not being able to fill certain cylinders (and like it should concern them if I was anyway, they do more for this sport than I'll ever be able to do), these guys are never given anywhere near the credit they deserve and I fail to see a way they could be, they just do an absolutely amazing job and there is no way in the world I'd be filling something up if I was told I'd be fined for doing so. It just sucks is all that our Australian governing bodies (ie;work cover) never want to stand up and be counted and say "this is the rule do this and this only". :hammer: Like you said Jamie nearly all our standards and acts in this country are just one big grey area. :hammer:

eukanuba

17-12-2003, 11:59 AM

Do you think that the cylinder manufacturers in the US are going to give us a legally binding document that states that we can use these cylinders for paintball use

Sure they will, when you explain how many they will sell.. and how the market down here needs lots of paintball stuff to support the fledgling new industry that could make them LOTS of money..

- Euk.

Jamie_Cracker

17-12-2003, 09:28 PM

thanks gav for the kind words and yes we do take notice of what everybody says (except electro and mini cause they suck)
my father les does do a heap of work and outlays a shitload to keep the airsystem going we only use it for paintball,that is a shitload to invest in a sport as small as ours
i hope we can get this crap sorted soon

kodos

17-12-2003, 10:27 PM

Jamie :respekt: you and your Dad have done a heap for paintball and it is appreciated as you said hopefully this stuff can be sorted out quickly.

Would be nice to now if cylinders brought in Australia from oz companies but without Workcover stamp are able to be filled or not

Rainman

17-12-2003, 10:38 PM

Going by what has been said kodos, NO I don't think that they can be filled legally without the stamp on it.It would be nice to get something in writing from workcover on this issue.

Cpt.Krunch

18-12-2003, 09:06 AM

Guys if the bottle is a registered design, then yes you will be able to get it filled if you can get a copy of the workcover registration number for that model of bottle.

I have attached a letter from Luxfer Gas Cylinders, hopefully this will help clear everything up.

JD

kodos

18-12-2003, 09:07 PM

Guys thanks for your replies, I found the approval number it's been on my cylinder the whole time it's one of the older numbers but it's there none the less

Jamie_Cracker

18-12-2003, 09:30 PM

woo hoo iam happy that it worked out ok for you kodos

kodos

19-12-2003, 11:33 AM

Thanx Jamie no seriously I was concerned about this and was happy to find that I wouldn't have to buy a new one (hence my post).
For all other owners of older Max Attack cylinders sold by Mac Dev the approval number is on the left side of the label and should read something like 6451P97 it's about the fourth line and doesn't have any indication of what it is!

Jamie_Cracker

20-12-2003, 10:14 PM

Check this out it is from skyball 7 they are having exactly the same problems as we are having,
http://www.skyball7.com/index2.html

Skyball has discovered a new law that pertains to all cylinders and TC stamps. All cylinders manufactured after December 31/1992 must have been manufactured in accordance with CSA B339 and contain a “TC” stamp. This requirement is stated and outlined in section 5.10(2) if the TRANSPORTATION OF DANGEROUS GOODS REGULATIONS. Please visit http://www.tc.gc.ca/tdg/clear/tofc.htm to view the TDG Regulations.

Section 8 of the TDG Act, 1992 requires that “no person shall sell, offer for sale, deliver, distribute, import or use a standardized means of containment unless it displayed all applicable prescribed safety marks.” If a cylinder manufactured after December 31/1992 does not contain the prescribed safety marks, it is therefore non-compliant with the Act. Visit http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/T/tdg/act/tdg.htm.

The following is a list of TC-registered manufacturing facilities authorized to manufactured TC 3ALM aluminum cylinders.

Catalina Cylinders
A division of Aluminum Precision Products Inc.
Garden Grove, CA.
(714-890-0999)

Submersible Systems Inc.
Huntington Beach, CA.
(714-842-6566)

Luxfer Gas Cylinders
A division of Luxfer Inc.
Riverside, CA.
(909-684-5110)

Catalina Cylinders
A division of Cliff Impact
Hampton, VA.
(757-896-9100)

Piper Impact Inc.
New Albany, MS.
(662-534-5046)

Hydrospin
A division of Luxfer Inc.
Huntington Beach, CA
(714-898-8041)

Luxfer Gas Cyliners
A division of Luxfer Inc.
Graham, NC.
(336-578-4515)

From what X.O. Industries has gathered, Catalina, Luxfer and Piper Impact are the three main manufactures that are acknowledged by Transport Canada as carrying the proper markings. Skyball will not be able to fill tanks without Transport Canada Stamps. No tanks without “TC” stamps are allowed in the stadium and X.O. Industries along with Skyball will not be held reasonable

Scion_of_Chemos

19-03-2004, 06:36 PM

Cn someone clear this up for me, Do macdev conquests meet australian safety requirements and our other silly little laws even if i buy it from the states and have it sent here to oz?

bunkerboy

19-03-2004, 06:50 PM

MacDev Conquests are "made" here and meet all the required regulations and laws. It'd be silly to order one from the US, as you would then have to pay all the extra taxes, stamp duties, freight and GST, on top the exchange rate difference. Order direct from them and save yourself the trouble.

JJJ

20-03-2004, 08:17 AM

Mac Dev are fine as are the bottles sold by the guys at Action Paintball

'Smokin' Joe Watson

11-05-2004, 12:26 AM

So most of the cylenders you see on the australian sites for example the cylenders from say 3A and crossfire are unable to be used and filled at dive shops and APPL events? If this is correct then how can the australian companies sell these to us knowing this information?

Action John

11-05-2004, 11:21 AM

Hardcore

11-05-2004, 11:31 AM

Nevermind breaking the law, HPA can KILL YOU!!!!
The thought of having a bottle let go around a group of paintball players scares the hell out of me.

eukanuba

11-05-2004, 12:08 PM

HPA can KILL YOU!!!!

I'm no physics brain, but I for some reason had a stat in my head..

( This is from my memory, so please dont shoot me if I am a bit out.. One of the instructors at Forrestfield told me this.. )

" 4500 psi = 100% fatality to everyone and anything within a radius of 50m "

Chances of immediate death are lessened at greater distance, however you should be aware of shrapnel from a ruptured pressure vessel, this also varies between 3000 and 4500 psi - also with the cylinder size.

Just to note: If a cylinder of any description is venting, you should never attempt to prevent that vent, you should assist safely and clear the area.

You should also attempt to use the most clean source of air available when filling high pressure cylinders.. as any dirt of oil can cause a rupture of lines with an anaerobic explosion and fire resulting from the contamination of the pressurised oxygen from dirt, contamination or oils - this can occur in atmospheres with as little as 21% oxygen ( off the top of my head ).

Seriously, this shit is dangerous..

- Euk.
:evil :thumbsup:

scud

11-05-2004, 01:38 PM

Euk are you a hair dresser ?

eukanuba

11-05-2004, 01:48 PM

No, V.FRS - but from time to time have been known to put out cylinder fires.. freaky shit watchin LPG venting and a flame coming off it..

Bending a flame freaks me out - advancing with 4 other guys toward a flame from a cylinder..

Car fires are the best - especially when the LPG cylinder is venting nicely.. its a sight to see, just wish someone could get it on video.. pity theres never any 'spare' people to do something like that..

- Euk.

Bill

11-05-2004, 02:31 PM

" 4500 psi = 100% fatality to everyone and anything within a radius of 50m "

Someone is just trying to scare you.

Even if it was full of C4 it wouldnt kill everyone within 50m.

eukanuba

11-05-2004, 04:19 PM

I know it would give you a helluva headache. :eek:
( If your head managed not to blow apart like a watermelon.. )

I wouldnt wanna be standing around one that ruptures.. and I wouldnt want to take my chances finding out if I would survive.. :no:

( I wasnt so sure about the 50m thing myself, but just passed it on.. )

- Euk.

Electrofunkster

11-05-2004, 04:34 PM

Maybe jamie C can elaborate ... Im sure it would make a mess of a lot of things

eukanuba

11-05-2004, 05:09 PM

Yeah, Mr Cracker !

Is it true that.. ( or have you heard )

" the USA are using a similar device to HPA fiber-wrap cylinders for creating Fuel-Air or " Aerosol Bombs ".. "

( From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fuel-air%20explosive )
Fuel-air explosive - a device consisting of a container of fuel and two explosive charges; the first charge bursts open the fuel container at a predetermined height and spreads the fuel in a cloud that mixes with atmospheric oxygen; the second charge detonates the cloud which creates an enormous blast wave and incinerates whatever is below.

Just rumour, but there may be some truth to the subject..

- Euk.

Hardcore

11-05-2004, 05:20 PM

FAE's have been around for ages, it's usually an aerosol that converts the fuel into a fine mist and an igniter to set it off.
They're pretty impressive to watch.

Jamie_Cracker

11-05-2004, 08:36 PM

during the first gulf war apparentely it was hard as hell to get a 68 fibre wrapped cylinder cause they were using so many in fuel air bombs...I dont know what the kill radius of of a 4500psi cylinder would be I will check it out but i dont wanna be within 1km of it can you imagine the shrapnel from the aluminium plus the fibres would be a bitch to get out using xrays etc