Are we running around with bombs? Or am I just paranoid?

[dYsTrOyA]

Ive read the notices everywhere: "Warning, playing with compressed air can kill!" - I think this thread even has that as its description, but just how dangerous, and how much at threat are we really as players of paintball?? Has anyone seen a compressed air tank rupture? I have quite a solid physics background thru school and can see that such high pressures in confined spaces has the potential to no doubt be deadly if the tank were to crack or rupture. What I dont have experience in is seeing one actually blow up, or how frequently (if at all) this happens. Are we all crazy diving around with these tanks under such large pressure? I would not argue with the idea that diving around and often landing awkwardly on the tanks and markers may lead to a breakage of the tank?? Obviously compressed air has been used for a long time in paintball and I havent heard of any blow ups, but do they occur? Are we taking these things seriously anough diving around with them so close to our bodies???
Something Ive often thought about.... please feel free to comment

[Andi]

They blow up all the time

[dYsTrOyA]

then Id assume there not lethal blow ups?? wat happens, does it rip apart or just leak out?

[dYsTrOyA]

Cars kill more people than HPA bottles. We should stop driving cars.

Dont get me wrong, Im not sayin stop using them, and obviously they are being used all the time and all over the world, so obviously there not ticking time bombs (I prbly didnt think the title of my post through long enough.) my question was simply do they blow up, and how do they blow up, and if the general paintball population takes the risk (whether it be small or large) seriously enough. If theres NO to LITTLE risk of rupture while playing (and if it does it isnt a dangerous or lethal break), then thats all I need to know.

[Souse]

the problem is when people use petroleum based lubricants on them and it gets into the tanks......when filling the bottle with HPA they get hot and can ignite...hence BOOM

[H-Bomb]

Found this on a Kiwi site...gives some good tips on how to respect HPA

airsafety.htm (http://www.paintball.co.nz/articles/2004/airsafety.htm)

[dYsTrOyA]

good find. Answered my questions, thanx

[Fatcat]

the problem is when people use petroleum based lubricants on them and it gets into the tanks......when filling the bottle with HPA they get hot and can ignite...hence BOOM

One way to prevent this is by standig the bottle being filled in ice to keep it cool. It's whats done in dive shops. However as this is difficult out at the field you could wrap the bottle in a towel kept in iced water from an esky. It's what I sometimes do when filling from scuba tanks. Also try not to fill the bottle to quickly so as to reduce the friction created by the sudden movement of the air.

Or if you don't know how to fill then let someone who does do it, look after and respect your kit and it'll do the same in return.

Besides I work in hardware and there are warning lables on virtually everything nowdays. Mostly cause the minority are not clever or careful and accidents happen. So they put them there as a form of awarness not as a prelude to disaster.

[Bigbird]

the problem is when people use petroleum based lubricants on them and it gets into the tanks......when filling the bottle with HPA they get hot and can ignite...hence BOOM

Close Souse. Heat has a little to do with the it. It is the HP air contacting oil, it will spontaneously combust. This is a big issue with the Oxygen bottles associated with Oxy/Acet torches. Pure oxygen makes a big bang. The heat is an after thought.

HP Air can Kill. The rapid expansion of air will affect hearing, sense odf balance, and the shrapnel from the bottle will cause you all the damage. That being said, if you have your bottles inspected on a regular basis this will not be an issue. I believe the standard is every 5 yrs (correct me if i'm wrong), but i get my bottles tested every 2 years. This is due to the location of the bottle during filling and play, either near your head or around waist hight.

I have seen the top taken off an Oxygen bottle. Nothing stopped it until it run out of pressure. Out the back of the van it was being transported in and through 2 brick walls. Granted they are larger than the bottles we play with, but our air bottles hold twice the pressure.

:respekt: HP AIR.

[Birdman]

I accidently pushed the top pin valve in on a HPA bottle once - was checking a bottle whilst standing behind the bar / receiption at MIP. Anyway luckily we were closed because it took off out of my hands and sort of fizzled around for a while. It was a high pressure preset so the output would have been capped at about 650 psi (i think) but still scared the crap out of me. Seeing a steel bottle that ways a few kgs fly around like its a paperweight is not cool.

Also saw a Mythbusters special where they shot a rifle into a scuba tank that was at 3000psi. Bottle just fizzled around (at pretty high speed) when penetrated - did not explode though. In typical mythbusters style they wanted an explosion to finish the story so they called in the experts and pasted some C4 explosive to the side of the scuba and then let fly - that produced a massive explosion. It was all done inside a 20ft steel shipping container and after the blast the sides were all bent outwards and messed up.

[Mark:-)]

I like to point mine away from my crotch when I fill it

yeah I always stand a little farther back. lol.

[Hornet Driver]

Dystroya,

As all of the above have said, respect it and it will do you no harm.

You already have gleaned the nasty effects of NOT respecting your gear, so the battle is half over.

What you need to understand now is that if you don't know what you're doing, THEN DON'T DO IT! These things aren't toys. You see that stamped into the side of paintball markers, that "...this is not a toy...", but you don't see it on a HPA bottle.

What you need to understand is that yes, these things do get bounced around, and yeah, guys do dive with them, but if I am right - and to the more experienced guys here, please correct me if I am wrong - you will see in any action photos of guys diving with their markers, they go with an elbow down, and the marker elevated from impacting with the ground so as to avoid any nasty consequences of impacting either their marker or their bottle with the playing surface.
Sure, they may be trying to avoid losing all their paint, or using their barrel as some sort of core-sampling device, but there is also an element of making sure they don't snap the reg out of their bottle when they slam into the dirt wrong!

Its not a bomb if you respect it, test it, store it correctly, and, above all else, educate yourself on the right things to do, and the wrong things to do when it comes to safe practices.

Lesson one, and this UNANIMOUSLY agreed upon I believe, as Souse has so vehmently mentioned herein, petroleum-based lubricants and HPA DO NOT, AND NEVER WILL MIX!!!
In layman's terms, do not ever, even if you're most revered legend of paintball tells you to, put oil into the screw on your marker where the bottle attaches, or if you use a remote line, anywhere near the on/off where your bottle screws in.

Mods, and anyone else who cares to read this, I apologize for the pseudo-rant above, but the guy cares enough to ask, so I care enough to take the time to, potentially, overstate the points raised herein.

Dystroya, educate yourself. Knowledge is your friend. You are being a little paranoid, but a little paranoia is a good thing when you are dealing with HPA...

Have fun. Be safe. :thumbsup:

[dYsTrOyA]

well said. Thanks mate :thumbsup:

[aussieriot69]

hey i just heard in the us. because they don't know what people have put in the tank so when they want to fill them they go put in a bomb proof case. if this is right then does that mean this will only happen when there been filled

[Souse]

just deleted all off topic response......please keep it on track as its an important topic

[H-Bomb]

Had to search for this one...I know its OOOOOOLLLLDDDDD but it is relevent...

Bottle rocket (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=vRcbblRqUPA)

[dYsTrOyA]

DAM, thats what im talkin about. Was that a break or was it just not screwed in enough?

[alien]

most ASA's are made to snap before any regulator will (regs go more than 1" into the body of the bottle)... thats why like the vid above the air fizzled out and ran away... a far better outcome than if the air was unregulated and leaking out! haha

im always cautious when i get a new air system or fill one i havent filled before cos you never know where its been...safest bet is to fill the bottle really slowly to your desired pressure. Always use a tank cover to protect the tank, and always get the tank hydro tested before its due date.

[Hornet Driver]

Believe it or not Dystroya, that is the desired outcome...

When you consider the alternative outcomes when it comes to such a high-pressure unit...:eek:

[eukanuba]

When CO2 was the main power source for playing ball, alot of the old guns used to recommend putting a few drops of lube into the ASA - and then screw the CO2 cylinder in behind.. this would force lube up, through the internals.. and lube the gun..

I noticed that on the rental tippman's, dropping a few spots in - before you do the bottle up, saves the o-rings a bit longer.. and helps to stop the gun spluttering..

cos we all know, corporates know that these guns are made for core sampling.. and putting gravel through.. ( and week old paintballs, found laying in the dirt.. )

I think the seppo's got confused, and then thought it would also be alright to apply the same principles to their new HPA cylinders and preset regs.. ( and that's how they got them to go bang.. )

[Hornet Driver]

Yeah euk, that's surely how it got started. No question.

The problem is though is that there are now a leigon of self-professed experts getting around, telling guys to lube their markers this way.

I have no argument whatsoever that it does work, but it is a lazy solution to the problem of lubing the internals of your marker. Add to that that a large portion of these experts actually INSTRUCT guys to do it with markers that run HPA, and you get a law suit waiting to happen!

We had a guy out at Samford bring out his marker, start to lube it that way and promptly be asked, very nicely but very firmly, to stop.
He intimated to me that he was told by someone he respected in the paintball community that that was how to do it.

Fine for CO2, if you are lazy or lubing field markers by the dozen with not much care for instilling a decent regimen of proper marker service, yet my concern lies with the attitude that what is good for the goose is good for the gander. :no:

Guys get around, saying they are the shite, pretending they know everything, and it becomes a scary situation when you see this kind of wholly incorrect and flat-out dangerous information being disseminated amongst young guys and girls who don't know any better. Moreover, these same young guys and girls look to the more experienced ones to educate them in not only decent play, good tactics and skills, but the cut-and-dried safety aspects that should not only be non-negotiable, but taught ONLY by a select few.
Self-education is best, but it depends upon the information that is placed out there for young players with which to educate themselves being uniform, no nonsense, and above all correct.

I will be the first to say that I DO NOT know everything. To assume the mentality that I do would be dangerous in the extreme, not only to myself, but to those around me that have been in the sport for less time. All you will see me saying on this specific topic here, in person and anywhere else that is silly enough to allow me to speak/write/exist in their realm is that you should respect these things and give them the utmost care.

Finally, consider this; if you don't respect your HPA tank, and you decide to store it in your home, imagine the potential damage it could cause to those that you love that share the same space with you and your HPA tank.
I am about to be a father - in 4 weeks as a matter of fact - and this scares the SHIT out of me...:eek:








Ahhh, dammit, I went and ranted again...:hammer: