CO2 tank problem (and a question or two)

[Guppzor]

Have a bit of a problem with my two new CO2 tanks. I have filled them a number of times with no problems whatsoever, but this weekend when I went to the field to play, they both started acting up. By acting up, I mean not allowing gas to flow, or allowing a reduced amount of gas flow. On closer inspection, there was a small piece of green "something" (my guess that it was part of the valve) protruding past the pin in the valve. After dumping about half of the CO2 in both tanks, the green "something" dissapeared, obviosly from whence it came. The owner of the field said that he has had a couple of his new bottles do the same thing, except in his case, the green "something" was red. After dumping the gas, one of the bottles worked correctly for one shot, and then quit, and the other worked, but with obviosly reduced gas flow.

Now, the bottles were not overfilled. I make it a point to underfill them by an ounce, and have never had a problem with them untill this weekend. Should they be underfilled even more?

So... what happened, how, and why?

I am going to get both valves replaced, and I might as well get an anti siphon tube installed in them at the same time (which is what I was going to end up doing anyway). I'm thinking about just getting 2 Pure Enery pin valves and get the appropriate people to fit them. Does anyone know if these valves can have anti siphon tubes attached (i.e. appropriate sized threading on the bottom of the valve assembly)?

Finally, any recommendations on who can replace valves and fit anti siphon tubes?

Thanks.

Edit: Is it worth getting on/off valves instead of the plain vanilla pin valve?

[Action John]

The green thing you saw was part of the valve seat. This can happen beacause of several reasons.
The seat is faulty.
Its just plain worn out.
The tank was over pressurized. (You may have filled it correctly but if the tank gets too hot the pressure gets too high causing the seat to fail)

With the one that wont let out any gas at all, what has happened there is that the seat has come off the pin, it is supposed to stay connected so when the pin is depressed it allows the gas to flow. What has heppened to yours is that the pin is now stuck to the underside of the valve, so when you depress the pin it slides over the seat so it stays sealed. This is caused most of the time by over pressurising the tank.

You dont have to replace the whole valve you can just replace the pin. I would recommend that you have this done by someone who knows what they are doing. (Remember that high pressure gasses can KILL you or someone else)

Anti syphon tubes can be installed to any co2 valve. To have this done correctly i recommend that you take your marker with you so it can be properly alligned. Just having the tube installed without your marker can be done but you must remember to mark the tank where the tube is. The downside of doing it that way is that when you screw your tank onto your marker it may align itself at the bottom and you will have to unscrew your tank half a turn therefor reducing the gas flow from your tank. Plus I dont think it is safe to do it this way as ALL tanks should be screwed on all the way.

On/off valves do make it alot easier to remove your tank and you will use less orings. You will also find that your ASA will have a longer life as it will no longer have pressure on it when you install your tank.

[Guppzor]

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't realise that you could just get the pin replaced, rather than the whole valve. Any suggestions on where (i.e. type of place) to take the tanks for repair (or have a new valve installed if I decide on on/off valves) and to have the anti-siphon tubes fitted. Rather than taking the whole marker, is it possible to just take the ASA with the proper orientation marked?

I can accept that I mucked up and perhaps (even with underfilling them) filled the tanks over the correct amount for the day's temperature. That said, is there any sort of guide to fill % vs. temperature that will help me avoid such things happening again?

[Action John]

Thanks for the reply.

I didn't realise that you could just get the pin replaced, rather than the whole valve. Any suggestions on where (i.e. type of place) to take the tanks for repair (or have a new valve installed if I decide on on/off valves) and to have the anti-siphon tubes fitted. Rather than taking the whole marker, is it possible to just take the ASA with the proper orientation marked?

I can accept that I mucked up and perhaps (even with underfilling them) filled the tanks over the correct amount for the day's temperature. That said, is there any sort of guide to fill % vs. temperature that will help me avoid such things happening again?


Most fields should have the facilities to remove and refit a co2 valve. Just make sure that when they refit the valve they use some locktite to help secure it in place.
With the anti syphons, yes you can just take or send your ASA.

As for the correct % to temp, there is really no guide to go on. Even if the tank is only half full it can still over pressurize if it gets hot enough. Co2 has a pressure of around 850psi @ 15 degrees celcius. Just try to keep your tanks cool. Dont leave them in your car or in the sun. If its a really hot day bring along a bucket or esky with some water in it to help keep the temp down.

[Guppzor]

Just a bit of a follow up...

I removed the valves of both of my 16oz tanks (don't worry, the burst disk assembly was removed to ensure the tank was empty) to have a look at it. I noticed something when I was doing this... The threads of the first valve had no thread locking compound on it at all, and the second had a 5mm long piece of thread locker along one 'V' of the thread (hope that makes sense). I warmed the first tank slightly to soften the expected thread locker, and I could literally unscrew the valve by hand (i.e. no tools). The second tank I didn't warm, and needed a spanner to undo, but even then the force required was minimal. Is this normal?? I know that when the tanks are under pressure the valve would be forced outwards, binding against the threads, but I still thought some sort of thread locking compound was required. These are both brand new bottles, and have not had their valves removed before this...

Secondly, one of my fathers 12oz tanks did the same thing (i.e. valve seat protruding), but this time the tank was almost empty, and was at around 25°C, so it's not as if it was a full tank left in the sun. That I could understand, but not a nearly empty room temperature tank. His tank is the same brand (Catalina) as my 16oz ones.

Any thought or suggestions would be much appreciated. This (along with a couple of other problems) is really starting to put a bit of a dull edge on what I was hoping would be a fun experience of owning my own gear.

[Booney]

See Action John if you can use an air system.

[Action John]

I warmed the first tank slightly to soften the expected thread locker.

You should never do that EVER!

If you are having heaps of problems just change them over to an on/off type valve head.

Just curious, where did you get your tanks from?

[Guppzor]

Sent you a PM...