Kingman Spyder Tweaking

[eukanuba]

Ok, I am tweaking around with the feed and flow for HPA into my Imagine - and I've got a couple of problems.. namely that of a leak.

When the Hopper is removed, pressure is applied and fully gassed.. I am hearing a slight " Hissing " from air inside the body through the feed neck..
I have read up on it being from insufficient pressure to lock the seals down - but doubt this as I've cranked back to 700psi and it's still loosing air.

I have installed a " Nu Designz " high flow valve assembly and removed my venturi off the polished bolt - enlarged the feed hole in the bottom of the bolt..

There is no nicked, kinked or leaking o-rings that I can find in the marker.

I have checked the striker and it doesnt have any obstruction, there is no problem getting air out if the bolt is pulled back just before the sear and released -the marker will throw a ball no problems..

Does anyone have any idea's about where my air leak problem's could be coming from ?

This is annoying as I'm dropping air badly - will drop 4500 psi ( 300bar ) within a couple of hours ( 2 at best )

[MelonFarmer]

I found a nice pic of your valve here:-

[[ http://www.newdesignz.com/Spyder_2.htm ]]

If there is air getting past the valve even when the bolt is cocked, then it's either going around the valve or through it.

Ensure that the valve orings are lubricated to help ensure a complete seal and check the spring holding the valve shut.

I recently replaced my maddman rocket valve with a newer release. I had a bit of trouble understanding their instructions so I reordered their text and photos and I've linked the doc file here. There are some nice photos of how to deal with valve installation.

[eukanuba]

Bongle, do you think it's the valve that's the problem ? there's O-ring's between the valve and striker... can't imagine that the air sound would be coming from around the striker..

I'm confused.. :confused:

[Gero crew]

Euk

if the gas/air is getting into the gun it can only be coming around the valve body(between the valvebody and the gun body) or past the valve seat.
In my experience with stacked blowbacks they will leak as you describe with no visible damage to any orings or surfaces.
Orings can become porous and leak while looking fine, I would suggest replacing all orings with the original spec ones (some of these valves use two different types front and back) and replacing the seal and/or swap valve to test.
cheers

[eukanuba]

I did replace the o-rings with new as the valve came without any...

I used standard black one's..

I noted that the original has a clear and a black - I was under the belief ( from reading otters custom mods ) that it was only a directional thing - but now, reading what you've said Gero-Crew - I will change out the o-ring's with the one's on the old valve and see how we go..

I've also got a heap of spare clear one's that are harder than the black - and longer wearing.. they might be the trick..

Thanks for the head's up guys ! :thumbsup:

[Gero crew]

no worries
you must put the white oring on the seat side (away from the hammer)
i doubt very much if it would work for very long with two black orings.
cheers

[Kristen]

It sounds like the cup seal (the white thing) its a common problem with them and the clones ,make sure its not damaged and scored in my spyders ive changed all the cup seals to 32 deg ones as they use an oring wich can be changed when they start to leak.

[eukanuba]

I changed the o-rings over.. played with the valve... did everything short of putting the old one back in...

ITS STILL LEAKING ! :no:

Short of just throwing the bloody thing in the bin, I dont know what to do..

[JJJ]

send it to an airsmith in WA or to Action

[eukanuba]

Such a thing exist's in the mythical land of W.A. ? :beer:

[Neil]

Replaced the cup seal?
I know you said you "looked" at it but it can have tiny marks in it that will cause a leak.
Just fit a new one and see how you go.
Cya, Neil

[MelonFarmer]

<sarcasm>Dunk it in the bath and see where the bubbles are coming from.</sarcasm>

Perhaps going back to the old valve just to see if the leak persists isn't such a stupid idea.

[Gero crew]

euk I have reread this thread (and fixed a typo in my post) we have all given you the same advice and its all correct so theres a fair chance you are missing something.
afa there being no "airtechs" in wa I know of a heap of ppl that have been fixing problems like yours for 10 years.
dunno where you hang out when you play/train but nearly every field iv been to in wa would have guns very similar to yours in use every weekend and would be run by or employ someone who could diagnose your issue very quickly.
my advice is to go and hand it over i doubt anyone would charge you to take a look.

[eukanuba]

Well, yes and no..

I've done quite a bit of work on it.. found the problem..

On the cup valve seal, it was not the seal.. but infact the design on the pin which goes through the valve.

There are quite a few differences, I thought it was the shape of the cup seal.. but as I had a couple - decided to change to see if it was damaged..

Check the cup seal for play or give, tolerance.... not the cup seal..
Checked the o-rings on the valve.. not the o-ring's on the valve..
Checked the pin for imperfections.. not a scratch ( as it's brand new )

It would appear that the pin does not sit right in the valve - it has a machined flange which goes against the valve.. but this is not sealing completely under pressure...

http://download.myarcadegames.com/leecheriffic/SpyderVStem.jpg

I put a spare cup seal ( from the old pin ) on the new pin ( after hand tapering it with a screwdriver bit as it's about 1mm too small..
No joy.. so I decided that the shape of the pin was the culprit - and I would put the old pin back in..

BINGO !

I'll post photo's when I get home tonight, but needless to say.. having bought it new and in a kit - was most dissapointed to find it was leaking like a sieve... I wasnt going to put teflon or anything in the path of the air flow.. just not worth it..

Now, I have it regulated to 500psi - and she's firing 1st shot fine.. then becomes a quick blender... same at 600psi...

I might just toss the whole valve idea and go back to the stock.. it was working great..

Everywhere I search on the net, they've not had alot of great stuff to say about this valve.. maybe I'm just not looking in the right place..

- Euk.